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 Ballykissangel
 population? (Page 1)
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Merfuff unregistered |
posted 08-06-2001 20:50
 
I surely ask a lot of questions ;-) I've never seen a population sign for Ballyk, and alas, will never get to Avoca to look for myself. How large is Ballyk/Avoca, please? And whatever the size, would this be a city, a town, a village, a hamlet or..., please? I ask cuz I'm curious ;-), and cuz the USA has a rather strict set of definitions re size/description. Our German friend almost laughs himself silly when I refer to our hometown as a 'city' (population about 11,000). In Germany, that's barely a 'city'. He told us he lived in a small city when first we corresponded. Imagine my shock when I learned his 'small' city was 250,000 people! I realize I ask far more questions than post comments, but I am so faaaaaar behind most of you in epis - we have seen only 2 epis of Series 4 so far and never DID see Series 1 (I don't think so.) I solved PART of that problem by purchasing Series 1-2-3, but we've yet to watch them all, and as I understand it, they are not all inclusive of each series Many thanks for your help! Merfuff IP: Logged |
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silvie unregistered |
posted 08-06-2001 21:15
I believe Avoca has about 1500 inhabitants. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. So it'd be called a village. I live in a village of only 1200 souls. IP: Logged |
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Arabella unregistered |
posted 09-06-2001 13:14
Here in england I live in what is offically a town and it has about 100,000-110, 000 inhabitants. IP: Logged |
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Merfuff unregistered |
posted 09-06-2001 20:18
quote: Silvie and Arabella, thanks very much! Merfuff IP: Logged |
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Arabella unregistered |
posted 10-06-2001 12:08
However i just watched amongst friends - niamh is having a go at brian for openeing the restarant after assumptas death and he says " what is the whol town supposed to stop working?" - and the fact that it has shops and restaurants and stuff does make it seem more like a town than a village- all the villages round my area in the Cotswolds dont even have a shop or a post office - just a pub and a phonebox-lol. He could of course have just been using the word town as a general term for settlemenmt - who can say? IP: Logged |
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Disguised Dervla unregistered |
posted 12-06-2001 16:48
I live in a hamlet, which has only about 200 people in it. Needless to say it gets rather boring. IP: Logged |
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Bronn unregistered |
posted 12-06-2001 21:16
Avoca (Ballykissangel) would be a village. Arklow (Cilldargan) would be a town like Wicklow. Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway etc are cities. I don't know what the exact definitions of a village/town/city are here. We just kind of 'know' them. It does get confusing. For instance, if I go into Dublin city for the shops I always say I've been "in town", so does everyone else! If I go home to visit I go "down the town of Greystones and into the village"! Crud, I'm even confusing myself here! I do know that Kilkenny is currently waging war with the government to keep it's "city" status. So there must be some sort of a definition. IP: Logged |
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Marcie unregistered |
posted 12-06-2001 22:07
In the US, it is the form of government, and not population, that dictates town or city status. Cities are headed by a mayor, with a board of aldermen or city council. Towns may have a town manager, or a town council or selectboard as their governing body. I would imagine that something similar is true in Ireland, as well. IP: Logged |
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Arabella unregistered |
posted 13-06-2001 11:32
Peter also refers to it as a town in serioes 2 ep when hes talking about the play "the whole towns looking forward to it" again as i said earlier that could just be a general term but the fact that ball k has shops and stuff makes it seem more like a very very small town with a village atmosphere than anything else. IP: Logged |
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Yvonne unregistered |
posted 13-06-2001 12:14
Hey Merfuff. My first question to you is...where did you find series 1-3 of Ballyk. to purchase? No one can seem to find 2 and 3. Marcie, I think you are right about the U.S. using the governing body to determine status. I always thought a village didn't have a police or fire dept, and it always says "Unincorporated" on the village sign. Now that I think about it, it does always say...Village of so and so. I live in a city of only 18,000. But I also live in a township, out in the country. I don't know why they have city inhabitants living in townships too. Very confusing. But there is always a spot for the township on your tax form! IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 13-06-2001 12:30
At least one official Irish government site defines localities thusly:
Source: http://www.environ.ie/press/irebest.html If earlier figures about Avoca are right, it would be, at least by this definition, a small town. I've been looking for days for some other reference point, but have come up empty. The larger point, of course, is that local government (and therefore definitions of "towns" and "cities" and the like) are all very much the creations of the prime ministerial imagination. What is today a city may tomorrow be a memory, as when (in England) Thatcher technically wiped London off the map. Truth is, the British and Irish don't hold political subdivisions in the same sort of regard as Americans do, preferring instead to blur the lines rather than specify them. As a footnote, I'd be very interested to see where this 1500 figure came from. I've found no reference whatsoever to Avoca's population on any government website. IP: Logged |
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Laura unregistered |
posted 13-06-2001 13:41
To muddy the water slightly, isn't a place with a cathedral a city irrespective of population or government? I work in Winchester which is not large at all but is a city with a City Council (and of course a cathedral). IP: Logged |
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Arabella unregistered |
posted 13-06-2001 17:49
yeah i always thought it was a cathedral and/or a university. I maintain that ballykissangel is a small town. IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 13-06-2001 18:18
Are you saying that St. Joseph's is a cathedral? IP: Logged |
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EmeraldEyes unregistered |
posted 13-06-2001 19:53
To confuse everyone a little more.....I live in a Borough of New Jersey. Though we have a mayor, and a whole governing body (police, fire department (volunteer only), court system, etc.,) is it in no way considered a city. On the other hand, let's not even get into how Brooklyn used to be a separate city on its own but was incorporated as one of the 5 boroughs that makes up the present day New York City!!!!!!!!!!! IP: Logged |
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Arabella unregistered |
posted 13-06-2001 20:21
but everythings totally different in america than in ireland. IP: Logged |
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Bronn unregistered |
posted 13-06-2001 23:05
Should've looked up facts like American Cousin before posting! The best place to find out populations in Ireland would be the Central Statistics Office http://www.cso.ie I don't know if they give specific areas (note - did not use the word town/village!). But, it might be of some use. Where the 1500 inhabitants of Avoca came from, I don't know. I wouldn't have thought there was that many people living there. Maybe if you include the surrounding townlands (Woodenbridge would be the closest emmm, place!). IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 03:05
Unfortunately, Bronn, the CSO don't, in fact, give detailed demographics at their website. They do, however, point you in the direction of real people you can contact by phone or post, who'll then help with your freedom of information request. That said, there are a ton of interesting summary reports available online to give you a good starting understanding of particular parts of the life of Ireland. I'll tell you, though, I've never looked harder for a simple fact in my life. Give me any unincorporated town anywhere in America and I'll have its mortality rate by religious preference in minutes. But trying to find this one little fact has driven me crazy. I've even taken the radical step of emailing people actually living in Avoca for their thoughts, but no response yet. I'll keep ya posted as the final number becomes available. Back to the hamlet/village/town/city thing, though: I'm really not sure these words have any real political definition or utility. I've been perusing the Irish and European government websites and, with the exception of that one "Tidy Village" contest, I haven't seen any kind of funds or regulation that give those terms any life. There are definitions for rural areas, as opposed to urban ones, or ones for a particular population density or limit, but none that specifically says "this money is for villages", "this law applies to the governance of towns", or "this regulation applies only to cities". Provided I've not missed something, I'd say the terms "village" and "town" and "city" are essentially open to interpretation without genuine political consequence. (I looked for a long time for the Kilkenny reference mentioned earlier, but could find nothing about it, either.) IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 03:12
Oh, and to confuse things even further, the official Avoca website ( http://www.avoca.com ), calls Avoca a village. From this side of the pond, that's what I would've naturally called it, too, if I was talking about it, as in, "I know this great village in Ireland called Avoca." If I'd been fishin' in the river, but then got thirsty, I'd say, "I'm gonna go back up into town for a drink." IP: Logged |
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Merfuff unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 18:08
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yvonne: [B]Hey Merfuff. My first question to you is...where did you find series 1-3 of Ballyk. to purchase? No one can seem to find 2 and 3. Yvonne, hi...I found 'em at amazon.com. I don't remember the UBB format to make actual links, sorry, but here's the URL: Or just use their search and type in 'Ballykissangel'. Happy huntin'! Merfuff IP: Logged |
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Curt unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 18:19
Uh oh....Merfuff, You had me real excited there for a minute. Those 3 tapes for sale at Amazon are episodes 1-6 of series 1. I'm pretty sure these were the only ones released by the BBC. We can only hope though.... IP: Logged |
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Merfuff unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 18:40
Those 3 tapes for sale at Amazon are episodes 1-6 of series 1. Oh, fooey, Curt...I earlier said I feared they were not inclusive, and you've confirmed that. Didn't mean to misinfo anyone...disappointed on the West side of the Big Pond IP: Logged |
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silvie unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 19:30
I'm sure i read about it somewhere although I can't recall where. I'm pretty sure it was while we were in Ireland though. I remember because I thought that was about as much inhabitants as our own village. I suppose they also count Woodenbridge and Redcross.
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silvie unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 19:57
By the way, talking about population. Does anyone know how big the pig population is in Belgium?:-) That's what I was asked at my exam today and I honestly had no idea. IP: Logged |
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Curt unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 20:50
Hi Silvie, I can't believe I looked up the pig population in Belgium.....but I needed a diversion at work. This is as of 1997. Now we have to worry about the O.T. police. IP: Logged |
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Bronn unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 22:39
I know American Cousin! It's so infuriating! Why am I even thinking about the population of Avoca? Of course - I have nothing like your excuse, Avoca is about 15 miles away from home! I thought I'd have the clever idea of looking at the electoral register but then remembered that Wicklow is a whole constituency, so that's no good. Nobody I know comes from Avoca village itself but I have one friend who's from Ballycooleen and Avoca would be their nearest shopping place. Her postal address was Ballycooleen, Avoca. She reckons on about 2500 people living in the surrounding areas! And her family always called Avoca "the village". We came up with this list of townlands that would use Avoca for post etc. Ballycooleen Kilqueeny Cherrymount Tigroney East and West Knockanree Upr and Lwr Kilmagig Upr and Lwr (these 6 were easy!) Castlemacadam Slievenavode Ballanagh Woodenbridge (almost a village, so maybe they would go elsewhere. Don't think they have a post office... can't remember.) I'm forgetting one. We had 14. Damn. Oh yeah! Garnagowlan. I know there's a couple we left out but we couldn't think of them. She went to school in Arklow with her older siblings because her Dad was a teacher there. Such a pity because Avoca national school was only about a mile away. The joys of having a teacher Dad! They didn't live there for very long, I think they moved to Dublin around 1986. Silvie Redcross is a bit too far away from Avoca and it's village (gahh!) in it's own right. They've got a post office there and shops, so they wouldn't come down to Avoca. I think you're probably right about the population. 1500 people including surrounding townlands seems right. 2500 is Another town that's not too far away (about 20 miles) from Avoca is much more well known, in name only though! It's called Shillelagh. I remember going there with a visitor who wanted to get a postmark from the post office to prove it existed! Lovely place too. IP: Logged |
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Vicky unregistered |
posted 14-06-2001 23:06
I may be asking a stupid question but does National school mean primary school or is it a primary and high school put together. Just wondering because Kevin never seems to leave Ballykissangel National School and I'm sure he is older than 11 which is when you go to high school. IP: Logged |
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Angela unregistered |
posted 15-06-2001 22:25
A good question. Where I live, primary school is called elementary school and children go to high school at age 13. IP: Logged |
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Bronn unregistered |
posted 16-06-2001 00:02
National School means primary school. You attend here from the ages of 4 - 12 usually. This is the equivelent of elementary school. Then we go to Secondary School (High School) until we're 17 / 18. If you do well enough in your Leaving Cert (huge exam at the end of your sixth year), you can then go on into college. IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 16-06-2001 00:43
Well, I finally found at least one source, though woefully unofficial, which cites the population of Avoca. They seem to be speaking from at least the point of view of someone who's been there, but I don't know where they actually get their figures. If you go to http://www.tvchronicles.com/locations/ballykissangel.htm you'll find they put the population of Avoca at "less than a thousand". IP: Logged |
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Bronn unregistered |
posted 17-06-2001 22:10
At last. I have found that the offical population of Avoca is, in fact, less than 200! This is according to the post office so who am I to argue with An Post? *grin* They reckon that there are 200 people living in Avoca Village and possibly up to another 400 living in the surrounding townlands. Giving the grand total of 600. This goes up and down during the summer as people have holiday homes there or whatever. Either way the population is less than 1000 and more like 600. Avoca is made to look much bigger on TV than it actually is, which we knew. I must say, I thought there were more people there, but the post office says no. To further confirm this, I had a brain wave on seeing a local paper "The Leinster Leader" at home. Did not find same on the net but did find an article written in March in Wicklow Today. They also say the population is around 200. You can check it out on http://www.wicklowtoday.com/opinion/ballykdiscussion.htm So, that's two local sources. Hurray! IP: Logged |
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Arabella unregistered |
posted 17-06-2001 23:29
200 people? thats about as big as a postage stampt. Ballk however was prtrayed as being much bigger IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 18-06-2001 02:01
If you go to the site I quoted earlier ( http://www.tvchronicles.com/locations/ballykissangel.htm ), you'll find out how they achieved the effect of 'enlarging' the town, and why they had to do this. (Significant exterior work was done in a neighboring--okay, neighbouring--village called Enniskerry.) IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 18-06-2001 02:12
Congratulations Bronn for finally finding the population of Avoca. I bow to your godlike scouring abilities. This thread has got to hold the record for the most number of replies between the initial question and the eventual answer. IP: Logged |
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Fiona unregistered |
posted 18-06-2001 02:32
Thanks AmericanCousin for leading me to that website. I was shocked to see that Poldark was there. I loved the books and the show. IP: Logged |
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Bronn unregistered |
posted 18-06-2001 16:12
Thanks American Cousin for the praise, although I wouldn't go so far as too call the searching "Godlike!". Coversation with local postman at home as follows. Me (B) : Hey Tony! Com'ere for a second. Tony is well known to dislike my family! Especially since we started teasing about his deputy, Mick. Tony and Mick, or as we call them, Tick and Mony... thick and moany... geddit... GAHHH!!! They used Enniskerry???? That's like 5 minutes away from me! Why did I not know this? Why? IP: Logged |
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Merfuff unregistered |
posted 18-06-2001 19:53
Originally posted by Bronn: "At last. I have found that the offical population of Avoca is, in fact, less than 200! This is according to the post office so who am I to argue with An Post? *grin* They reckon that there are 200 people living in Avoca Village and possibly up to another 400 living in the surrounding townlands. Giving the grand total of 600." Thank you ALL for your contributions to this crazy and curious USA'n's population thread question! It has been interesting to read and learn more about Ireland/Ballyk...thanks again. Merfuff IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 19-06-2001 00:03
The second part of Merfuff's question is as yet incompletely answered, however. What do you call a place that has 200-600 people? According to the "Best Kept Towns" site given earlier, Avoca would definitely be a "village", but this is a very specialized category for a competition. According to a geneological researcher I contacted via http://www.local.ie quote: Now, I'm not saying that's the definitive answer on the subject--maybe there are population-specific definitions for certain government programs--like this "Best Kept Towns" thing--but after much research I tend to agree with her. I think Avoca is a village simply because it feels like one. As for your belief that the USA is more specific on this matter, well, that's only partially so. To be sure, it's more precise than Britain (a city in Britain is a title conferred by the monarch, not necessarily related to population) but it's hardly a uniform distinction, as cities receive their incorporating documents from the state, and each state has its own rules. Still, these rules do usually include a population requirement, even if the precise number of people varies from state to state. Obviously, for instance, Maine would consider lower populations cities than California. The point is that there's no uniform standard for the term city (or town or village) in America any more than there is in Britain. IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 19-06-2001 00:15
Another muddling factor in America is the propensity for towns or villages to have names which include the word "city". For example there's a "Forest City" in almost every state in the Union, and many Canadian provinces as well. There was a propensity to name settlements in the Old West "____ CIty" as well, like Carson City or Culver City or whatever. This pehnomenon happened in Mexico as well, as with Ciudad Juarez, Ciudad Obregon, Ciudad Real, and the like, in Latin America. IP: Logged |
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AmericanCousin unregistered |
posted 19-06-2001 00:28
By the way, did you know that Avoca was a mining town? If you live in Ireland, no doubt you do, but I was totally surprised to find that mining was essentially what had "made" the town economically. It had the most productive metal mines in Ireland, so well-regarded a sister town (also called Avoca) sprang up in Australia. Many, many Avocas exist in America as well. You never get a sense of this noble heritage in the series. Go to http://wicklow.local.ie/content/8514.shtml/history/general for a good overview of the history. Also, go to http://www.celtic-copper.com for a site specifically devoted to the copper industries of Ireland, Wales and Cornwall. IP: Logged |
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